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	<title>Software Memories &#187; ASK Computer Systems</title>
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		<title>Ingres memories</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarememories.com/2005/11/14/ingres-memories/</link>
		<comments>http://www.softwarememories.com/2005/11/14/ingres-memories/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[ASK Computer Systems]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Application software]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Computer Associates]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Database management systems]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IBM]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ingres]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Oracle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sybase]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[System software]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[The news about Ingres being spun off by Computer Associates brings back a lot of memories.  First of all, Ingres (then called Relational Technology Inc.) was one of the centerpieces of my first-ever research trip to the West Coast in April, 1982.   Second, the day CA&#8217;s acquisition of Ingres closed, Charles Wang [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The news about Ingres being spun off by Computer Associates brings back a lot of memories.  First of all, Ingres (then called Relational Technology Inc.) was one of the centerpieces of my first-ever research trip to the West Coast in April, 1982.   Second, the day CA&#8217;s acquisition of Ingres closed, Charles Wang (CA&#8217;s CEO, of course), called me personally and asked me to consult to CA about their forthcoming product strategy.  It was an intense, month-long project, perhaps still the single largest one I&#8217;ve ever done.</p>
<p>So with no further ado, here some observations of and about Ingres through the years.</p>
<ul>
<li>Ingres was of course the first of several DBMS companies spun off from UC Berkeley&#8217;s INGRES research project, and one of several started with Mike Stonebraker&#8217;s involvement.   I wrote about that history briefly in my now-defunct <a href="http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/170" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.computerworld.com');"><em>Computerworld</em> blog</a>.</li>
<li> Ingres (then called RTI) and Oracle (then called RSI, for Relational Software Inc.) were of course arch-rivals.  As a general rule, Ingres was first to market with new features such as a 4GL or a truly distributed DBMS.  Oracle, however, was the first to market with the features customers most cared about, at a level of completeness they found acceptable.  Eventually, when Sybase was a factor too, Ingres was always betwixt and between &#8212; everybody&#8217;s second choice, but not the first choice of enough buyers to keep on prospering.  (Later on in the 1990s, Gupta took over the Ingres role in the low-end market &#8212; the product was broader than Powersoft, but who cared?)</li>
<li>Ingres was eventually merged into ASK Computer Systems.  While surely a distraction, that&#8217;s not what killed it.  Each predecessor company had its own problems, and they pretty much stayed out of each other&#8217;s way, at least in product strategy.   What killed them is that neither side of the business managed to stay fully competitive in product.</li>
<li>Ingres&#8217;s fatal technological mistake was whiffing on parallelism.  And it did so in the most painful of ways.  Ingres had a joint development project going in the Portland, OR area with Sequent, to develop a parallelized version of their DBMS.  They pulled out due to expense, and Informix stepped in.  And that&#8217;s how Informix managed to be competitive with Oracle in parallel processing, while lack of competitiveness in that area is what doomed Sybase and Ingres.  Ouch!!!</li>
<li>A second Ingres failing probably wasn&#8217;t as big as I thought at the time.  This was an inability to offer abstract datatypes, aka object/relational, aka UDBMS (where the &#8220;U&#8221; is for &#8220;universal&#8221;).   I thought this feature would be hugely important, and my opinion on that score probably was a big part of influencing Informix to overpay for Illustra.  But Microsoft has never had the feature, and it doesn&#8217;t seem to have suffered all that much in the marketplace for its lack.</li>
<li>ASK was doing even worse on the product side than Ingres &#8212; it never came out with a decent GUI version of the product, although ASK did get a license to resell Baan&#8217;s code &#8212; and the whole sorry mess was eventually sold to CA.  CA has a well-deserved reputation for slashing development costs and profiting from slowly-dying software products.  But I watched this acqusition from the inside, and to this day I think they really wanted to make the product competitive.  But there was one not-so-little problem &#8230;</li>
<li>CA ran off all of Ingres&#8217;s engineers right after the acquisition.   CA&#8217;s policy upon acquiring companies was requiring employees who wanted to keep their jobs to sign non-compete agreements.  In Ingres&#8217;s case, however, that policy was a spectacular failure.  Oracle, Informix, Sybase, and much of IBM&#8217;s DBMS development were all located in the Bay Area.  Finding another local job for these guys (and gals) was EASY.  Competitors went into a feeding frenzy hiring Ingres engineers, and there was essentially NOBODY left.   In my judgment there was a reasonable chance CA could revitalize development with an aggressive investment strategy, but they ultimately blinked.  And with very limited ongoing development, the product obviously faded quickly as a mainstream competitor.</li>
</ul>
<p>I think I&#8217;ll go write about the rest of the story over in the <a href="http://www.dbms2.com/category/relational-technology/open-source-rdbms/ingres/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.dbms2.com');">DBMS2 blog</a>.</p>
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