February 13, 2006

MSA memories — the basics

When I became a software analyst in 1981, MSA (Management Science America) was generally regarded as the leading cross-industry financial software vendor. Its CEO was the colorful John Imlay, best known for a variety of showman stunts, such as bringing animals to sales meetings. (He also was known as “the man who killed the keypunch” from his hardware days, when he took a sledgehammer on stage to a keypunch machine in a presentation introducing key-to-disk technology.) The president was Bill Graves, the most agile 300 poundish guy I’ve ever seen off of a football field, and still the only person at whose house I’ve held hands during the saying of Grace.

MSA software ran only on IBM mainframes. There were a limited number of modules. I specifically recall an ad campaign for the “Big Eight,” because they had eight modules, and the “Big Eight” were the public accounting firms in those days. The eight included payroll, human resources, and six financial modules, which were general ledger, accounts payable, accounts receivable, purchasing, fixed assets, and probably inventory. That’s all, versus the hundreds of modules successor companies have today.

MSA obviously modeled its “persona” on IBM. Indeed, the MSA logo consisted of the three letters in a font that consisted of thin parallel horizontal lines, exactly like IBM’s of that day did. Another major slogan was “People are the key,” with little key lapel pins given to five- and ten-year employees.

MSA struggled with the technological move from batch to real-time packages, and lost ground to M&D (McCormack & Dodge) over those struggles, but made it in time to survive. Eventually, MSA was acquired by Dun & Bradstreet, which had already bought M&D, and the two arch-rivals merged into D&B Software. The whole thing stagnated – most mainframe software was doing badly by the late 1980s — and eventually was spun out to Geac, which recently has been LBOed, and another reshuffling is now underway.

MSA eventually diversified into industry-specific vertical market software. In particular, it bought MRP vendor Comserv. It also bought Information Associates, which sold software mainly to universities and other non-profit organizations.

MSA actually had a large collection of the software industry’s notable executives and characters. The head of development was Dennis Vohs, who most people thought might be better suited to be a sales guy. The head of sales was Don House, who most people thought might be better suited to be a development guy. Vohs’ chief lieutenants included Larry Smart and Pat Tinley, both of whom went on to be software company CEOs. Vohs, Tinley, and Joe Southworth (perhaps MSA’s brightest development exec) went on to run Ross Systems. Doug MacIntyre, later CEO of a couple of companies, was MSA’s first VP of marketing. Fran Tarkenton, the ex-football player, was allegedly an exec. So far as I could tell, this amounted mainly to their conference room being called “Fran Tarkenton’s office,” with some of his trophies kept there. Apparently, people liked being in Fran Tarkenton’s office, and this helped sales. Tarkenton later went on to found CASE vendor Tarkenton Software, which merged into James Martin’s pet CASE company Knowledgeware. MSA’s obligatory bankruptcy staving-off story is John Arnold (later Northeast region sales chief) making a sale that was contingent on a financial stability reference, then hanging out in a phone booth to take a call and fake the reference himself. Well, actually the early days of the company were a mess, which is why Imlay was brought in to fix it, but that’s so far back in the late 60s and/or early 70s that I never really knew the details. But at one time MSA stood for “Management Science Atlanta.”

The executive team Imlay replaced included Jim Edenfield and Tom Newberry, who went on to found American Software. Other notable ex-MSAers include Rick Page and other principals of his sales training company. And MSA also owned Peachtree Software for a while, which was a leading microcomputer accounting software vendor in its day.


378 Responses to “MSA memories — the basics”

  1. Software Memories»Blog Archive » Prerelational financial app software vendors 1 — a quick overview on February 13th, 2006 10:47 am

    […] MSA (Management Science America). This section got so long I’m breaking it out as a separate post just about MSA. […]

  2. Jerri Lang on May 9th, 2006 12:08 am

    Dear sir,
    I am trying to track down a fellow who used to work for MSA
    and then started with Cullinet. He was the Regional Sales Manager
    for Cullinet in the late 80’s and went on to Data Cable from there.
    We would like to make contact with him if at all possible. His name
    was Christopher R. Malcolm. His wife was Charlotte, and they lived
    in Europe for a while when he was with the company. If you have some
    info please let me know. It involves some family he is unaware of
    and would like to find him.

  3. Gary Knopp on June 15th, 2006 1:33 pm

    I enjoyed this brief write up, but would tell the story much differently. I was there in what I think of as the golden era of 1978-1988. What made MSA work then was that Imlay made the company right for the time. It was a time, when service and sales prowess could make a software company successful. At that time, we had all the tools to be the leader. There was no great emphasis on development because the competitive landscape did not demand it. It did demand great selling and great support and that is what we delivered. By the late 80s companies like Oracle and SAP (I worked for both later) made technology the key. But in the golden era, “people were the key”. This was the highlight of my career and the best times of my life. I have thanked John Imlay for what he did for me, other and the customer. He was and is a true leader.

  4. Curt Monash on June 26th, 2006 6:37 pm

    Hmm. I’m not sure I can accept the claim that technology had fundamentally different levels of importance at different points in time.

    Xerox Computer Services was a $100 million enterprise, with sales training so good that a lot of the other companies’ sales folks got their starts there. Yet it fizzled. If MSA had more thoroughly flubbed the move from batch to real time, it would have gone away years earlier. And so on.

    Obviously, platform technology was much less of an issue in the character-based, pre-relational era than it was later on. A larger fraction of app vendors died from the switch to client-server/RDBMS than died in any platform shift before or after. But I think you overstated the case by far.

    Or am I missing the gist of what you said?

    But no matter what, thanks for posting!! I want to collect as many thoughts and impressions at this site as I can. There’s a lot of history that shouldn’t be lost.


  5. Diane Stephenson on October 4th, 2006 8:34 am

    Hi Gary – I also enjoyed the article here. I got here by searching for John Imlay as I was telling folks I work with about what a great place MSA was to work. One correction that I would make was that we didn’t get pins after five or ten years but shortly after we joined the company. It made you feel like part of a valuable group right away. I feel John was a pioneer in how to treat people who work for you. When Microsoft first started and some of the silicon valley start ups tried a similar approach. Now with overseas outsourcing and constant reductions in force
    people have been lost in the shuffle. I remember my time working for MSA very fondly as well. Diane

  6. monash on October 11th, 2006 12:41 pm

    Hi Diane!

    I thought you got nicer pins — silver, gold, whatever — after longer tenure.



  7. Steve on October 12th, 2006 9:07 am

    I’m sure it’s a real long shot, but several of the posters seem likely to have great knowledge about MSA. I am desperately trying to find some manuals/information regarding how to control security to the MSA Accounts Payable package (screens smm –> sem). Is there still such documentation/information available out there? Would it be the “Data Processing Guide”? I have the “Operator’s Guide”, but it doesn’t really discuss security. I would really appreciate any help. Thank you.

  8. Jim Jones on October 21st, 2006 6:23 am

    I started my software career in MSA back in 1981 in the UK. A couple of things about John Imlay. I remember a HR Director at a Imlay Lunch in London saying “John how do balance managing MSA and speaking around the world?”, John’s response was “Look around the room you will see a number of my team here, I am leading from the front and pulling my company with me, have you ever tried to push a rope?” With regard to the key on your first day MSA gave you a silver key from Tiffanys, and your spouse, and it was upgraded to gold after 5 years, after 10 diamonds were added to the ladies brooch. In the UK we still have reunions, the next is planed for early November, they are named ‘The Broken Key Club’ and we can still get 40+ ex MSA employees and I am not sure that any other software company of that era can boast the same. Like most people I have fond memories of my 8 years at MSA and when you look around the software industry today many of the leaders are still influency these new technologies

  9. Rebecca Tydings on November 21st, 2006 11:25 pm

    I worked at MSA (incidentally, it was Management Science America – not Atlanta) as a very young, entry level administrative support staff member in the early to mid-eighties. I, too, loved working there and maintain contact with a few of my former co-workers. I remember the company as an action-packed, moving and shaking leader in the software industry that was just so incredibly exciting to be a part of.

    John Imlay was larger than life and Bill Graves was larger than that. The collective talent and brilliance of the upper management team was amazing to watch and learn from.

  10. monash on November 22nd, 2006 2:41 am

    Hi, Rebecca!

    About that name thing — I stand by my story. The switch from “Atlanta” to “America” was long before I covered the company or you worked there. If I had to guess, it was somewhere in the 1971-3 timeframe.

  11. Ed O'Neill on February 10th, 2007 10:57 pm

    My name is Ed O’Neill and i am proud to have been a small part of MSA in the early ’80s. John Imlay, Larry Smart were inovator then and the fact the “company” landed w/detriment. That is a story i dont have time for now. What i want to do is find my old fthje Omni and looking friends Steve Carter, Chris Malcolm, Danny Abadin, Bob Layson. It has been 25 years and i am coming down for the Final Four, staying at the Omni.

  12. Kevin Ashworth on March 19th, 2007 9:44 pm

    Ed, Steve Carter is at a company in Atlanta named North Highland Consulting. He’s
    been there several years and reachable. See this site above or here: http://www.northhighland.com/locations/Atlanta.html.

    Kevin Ashworth

  13. ray on June 11th, 2007 7:33 am
  14. Mike Sachais on June 18th, 2007 8:29 am

    I too worked at MSA during the glory days, through the merger with M&D, and the buyout by Geac, overall
    a total of 15 years. Things started going downhill when Imlay sold out and left the company. When he left
    the focus changed from the employees to the business.
    Looking back, and having worked as a consultant in numerous IT shops since then, the
    thing that made MSA successful was they truly practiced what they preached with the phrase “People are the
    key”. They hired smart agressive people and rewarded them for their hard work and effort.
    People would come into work at all hours of the day and night and enjoy it. MSA trained their employees and
    taught them the proper way to design and build software. That produced results. It wasn’t perfect,
    but I truly believe if more companies treated their IT staff the way MSA treated their employees,
    there would be a lot more happy IT people in Atlanta. MSA was the Google of the 80’s.

  15. monash on June 24th, 2007 5:56 pm

    Actually, Mike, and this doesn’t at all contradict what you said, MSA had a big emphasis on stealing employees from firms that had good entry-level training themselves. Developers tended to come from EDS. (Including Bill Graves himself?) Salesmen tended to be former ADP sales managers.

  16. Bob Jensen on August 15th, 2007 8:31 pm

    A small correction, Curt. MSA didn’t steal employees from EDS…they stole EDS’ entire training curriculum instead. In the early to mid-1980s, they had something called the “Career Development Program” (CDP) which recruited heavily from colleges. It was essentially modeled after the EDS “boot camp” to the point where new hires into the CDP program had userids that were prefixed with “EDS”.

    They went from having one CDP class per year, to two a year, and rapidly ramped up to almost bimonthly class starts. 10 to 20 neophyte programmers in each class. Many of the CDP grads were fanatically loyal to the company: I can name a half dozen or so CDP graduates from the 1980s still working for the latest version of MSA (MSA –> Dun and Bradstreet —> Geac —> Extensity —> Infor Global Solutions). They’ve all been with the company for 20+ years now and have never worked anywhere else. You don’t see that kind of loyalty to a corporation in America nowadays, especially in the IT field!

    MSA truly had the “best and the brightest” throughout the 1980s. It was a young, hard working, hard partying camraderie. The yearly “Kick off” meetings were the highlight of the year, often held at Atlanta’s Fox Theater where no expense was spared.

    Oh, and that last module you referenced in your initial post wasn’t “inventory”, it was the late unlamented “Forecasting and Modeling” module, the balkiest, most unforgiving piece of mainframe software ever developed.

  17. Keith Canniff on October 27th, 2007 11:13 pm

    Ah, the good old days. I was with MSA from 83-87 and left just prior to the D&B buyout. From what I heard I was glad I did. Several of my friends remained and said the company just wasn’t the same anymore.

    To this day, I felt it was the best person oriented company I had ever worked for. As mentioned, the kick-off meeting/extravaganza, the Friday afternoon theme parties on the front lawn, softball teams, bowling teams, etc. Everyone worked hard and played hard. They definitely did their homework before hiring someone. Not only did they have to be technically proficient, they had to be “compatible” with others. I went through a 9 hour “interview” process, meeting with several different managers, HR, technical people, etc. They definitely treated their employee’s right. I remember the CDP program. They cranked out brainwashed MSA bots I think every 13 or 18 weeks, something like that. I don’t mean brainwashed in a bad way. They just took raw students, programmed in the MSA way, then let them loose with the rest of us. Seemed to work quite well.

    One of my favorite times was going on the all expense paid trip to Hilton Head as a result of winning the Olympian Award…. and I do mean “All expense paid”. You got there, they handed you a card, and said you can basically go anywhere except buying gifts and it’s on the company. It was awesome.

    I really wish I had kept in touch with my friends there, but It’s been a LONG TIME now. If your out there, drop me a line. Since this post probably monitors patterns in text, I’ll just say my email address is kcanniff at gmail.com.

  18. Michele on November 25th, 2007 10:51 pm

    I started at MSA and ended at DBS from 1989 – 1993.
    I wish I had kept in touch with all the friends I made at the company, I still talk about my days at the company what a good time we had. It was truly the best company to work for and I am proud to have been apart of such a company, if only I could find another company like it.

  19. Bill Wise on January 4th, 2008 2:05 am

    What seems to be missed in all the preceding dialog, is the story of the “incredible shrinking software company”. This DBS merger, driven internally and secretively by Bain, turned MSA and M&D, these innovative and very competitive companies into dust.

    On paper, a half billion dollar company, newly minted as Dung (pun intended) and Bradstreet Software was laid open to the US market entry of a German firm, SAP. M&D (we knew how to beat them), and likely, MSA were learning how to compete with this upstart entree, SAP.

    Just at this moment, Bain (yes, the same sleeeeazy company Mitt Romney was part of) suggests the timing of this merger is brilliant. So M&D and MSA energies are diverted to merger while SAP usurps the US market at precisely the most inappropriate time.

    End of story – MSA and M&D, hand the market to SAP and, as DBS, reach a combined market value of zero, thus, the incredible sucking sound of lost American enterprise in the name of greed.

    M&D was a great company with marvelous, creative and innovative people. I loved working there. Same goes for MSA. We enjoyed competing with each other.

    Bain turned it to dust.

  20. Jacqueline Burg on February 7th, 2008 5:41 pm

    Those were the days – I worked at MSA/Chicago in the late 80’s. It was a great place to work and what a learning experience. The travel was a lot of fun and the clients were the best. I have nothing but the best memories – Great friends, management, and company (until they sold out.)
    I left soon after D&B took over and went to work for a small Software consulting firm in Western New York.

  21. Anonymous on February 17th, 2008 10:24 pm

    Dennis Vohs is my uncle. Yep.

  22. Liz Neale on February 19th, 2008 10:17 am

    How fun to read these posts. It was indeed an exciting place to work.
    I was sales support in the Toronto, Canada office in the late 70’s and early
    eighties. Remember User Groups? I went on the sales trips to Hilton Head
    and Maui and User Group meetings in San Franciso and I think it was Portland,
    MSA people sure know how to have a good time. We said MSA stood for money, sex and
    I went to Cullinet, then called Cullinane. Like John Imlay, John Cullinane was
    a giant.
    I am now living in The Bahamas, a refugee from Canadian winters.

  23. Alan Dash on February 22nd, 2008 6:48 pm

    I never worked for MSA, but instead was the U.S. Vice President for a Japanese software services/marketing company (Fuyo Information Systems). Fuyo was the sales partner in Japan for Applied Data Research (ADR), based in Princeton, NJ (Roscoe,Vollie,Ideal,Datacom DB). John Imlay was close with the ADR President, Marty Goetz, and was a guest speaker at the big bashes that ADR held. John was known for his great jokes and sense of humor.

    Those years during the 1980’s were truly the “Golden Age” of mainframe software. Lavish spending, international meetings in exotic locations, and pleasant work environments. Little did we realize that some dark clouds were on the horizon: Personal computers and the imminent recession of the 1990’s!!!

    All good things come to an early end. Budgets tightened, good companies swallowed by larger greedy companies, cubicles instead of offices with windows, glass windows replaced by Microsoft Windows, slow decline of mainframe software, etc. ADR was bought by Computer Associates, and most ADR people were immediately laid off. Office environments became less friendly, benefits reduced, and more internal competition among employees at most companies. Loyalty became extinct, and mainframe software programmers were put on the “endangered species list.” The Golden Age is over, and now we can only reminisce.

    Alan Dash (ex-Computer Sciences Corp. and Fuyo)

  24. Mark Ivanovich on March 3rd, 2008 7:30 pm

    “No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck and good salesmanship.”

    That was the ‘key’ learning experience I gained from my tenure at MSA.

    I now live on Maui and owe it all to the software industry experience of the 70’s and 80’s

    What ever happened to Andy Walton? Beth Hunt – ru out there somewhere?


  25. Norm Bukoski on March 19th, 2008 2:14 pm

    I worked at MSA in the early ’80s, also in the Toronto office. I knew when I found this thread, there’d be someone I knew. Liz, how are you?
    I kept in touch with a few MSA-ers – Brian Rooney, Dorothy (Bunny) Brandt (don’t know if she went back to her maiden name). Now not so much. Have lost touch with Gari (nee) Burrows snce the early ’90s.
    It was absolutely the best place to work. Work hard/play hard was virtually defined by them. We’d do training classes ending on Fridays. After the sessions, we’d open the bar and employees & customer/students would sit around drinking till all hours.

  26. Tim Shears on May 21st, 2008 3:40 pm

    My MSA years were from 1980 to 1990, based in the UK and Sweden.

    The MSA approach was great – hire bright people, give them training and opportunity and, most importantly, give them more responsibility if they could handle it, irrespective of age, connections, sex etc.

    What a shame the Bainite’s and other managed to turn 2 500 million dollar companies into one 300 million dollar comapny in the space of a year or 2. Still, our own fault for hiring the idiots in the first place.

    Imlay was a true leader and front man. He also made sure he had a detail guy (Graves) close behind him and that is a lesson we all can learn.

    I am still in touch with many ex-MSA’ers. The UK IT sector is littered with them. If only we had a secret handshake.

    To this day Imlay is the only guy I purposefully lost to at golf!

  27. Michael Murray on June 7th, 2008 12:39 pm

    The MSA division that I worked for was the folks that bought Arista Manufacturing Systems from Xerox Computer Services. They were far from happy-go-lucky.

    They had no clue about production and inventory control software and essentially ruined the business.

    They were acutely paranoid people that freaked out when E-Systems informed me that they would not be calling anymore until the recording device was removed from the phone system. They were recording the first 10 seconds of every phone call, looking for headhunters calling “their” people.

    On the other hand, we had an MSA critter calling programmers all day, every day, trying to recruit then from other companies. I was told that he was a “recruiter”, not a “headhunter”.

    If they found out that you were job hunting, you were immmediately fired.

    Although they knew almost nothing about production and inventory control systems and even less about selling them, they made it very clear that if they wanted any help or information that they would ask.

    Obviously, you cannot get creative with general ledger software, but manufacturing software is highly custom, and Arista had an entire department devoted to doing custom modifications for our customers. MSA decided that modifying a standard software product was stupid and that our customers should learn to adapt to the “standard” product. That angered the customer base and surprised the MSA folks.

    Arista and Comserv were strong rivals and sold hard against each other for years. So, MSA bought Comserv. If you found a manufacturing software prospect, what would you sell him? Another really dopey move on their part.

    Basically, MSA took a company that was the #1 provider of manufacturing software to Fortune 500 companies and tanked it on their watch.

    I’m grateful to MSA because the showed me that I just didn’t have the DNA to tolerate stupid corporate bullshit any more, so I became an entrepreneur.

    I agree that John Imlay was a really funny guy, but he wasn’t the force behind MSA then, just the face of it.

  28. Herbie on June 12th, 2008 4:49 pm

    MSA was indeed the place to be in the 80’s. I enjoyed the opportunity that was presented to the employees. I had the opportunity to work with a lot of very good people. With all the CDP teaching I did in my spare time I learned far more than I taught. I continue to run into a lot of this group throughout the country and every MSA’er I meet again brightens my day.

    The internal project “Screen Paint” was much like what SAP is. The idea of RIO’s(relational input output) and REM’s(Record Edit Modules) to handle editing and data integrity was ahead of its time. It was just a struggle to deliver it on time. I still remember installing it at HBO in NYC and Society National Bank before they pulled the plug. Somewhere I still have a VHS copy of the Mission Impossible tape made to celebrate the project.

    Thanks to all the MSA’ers that have remind me of the incredible time we had at MSA. The Olympian celebrations, the annual banquet at the FOX and all the Interacts were some of the best times I have ever had. Thanks for the memories.

  29. Recent reporting on the shenanigans at FAST | Text Technologies on July 8th, 2008 3:16 pm

    […] nothing new here. Back in the 1980s, we used to joke that MSA made 10% of its annual revenue and 100% of its profits between the 32nd and 40th of […]

  30. Michael Bernstein on August 4th, 2008 9:35 am

    I worked for M&D from 1987 until 1993, when I was laid off due to the “merger”. Actually, it was more of a takeover. Another factor, and a sizable one, in the demise of the combine D&B Software was the rivalry. It was an unfortunate choice to make MSA the controlling part. Most of the employees at MSA hated us. Instead of mergering to become a better company, the goal was to remove as much of M&D as possible. I was a senior-level programmer. I met with such terrible enmity when I demonstrated the Millennium platform, which they were eventually forced to use to build a new Customer Information Database, which M&D had just completed prior to the takeover, but was deemed completely useless.

    The beginning of the end was the dismissal of Frank Dodge. Then, corporate management shifted from Framingham, MA, to Atlanta. MSA management kept pulling to Atlanta all of the Framingham functions, laying off mostly just M&Ders. It was a horrible time.

    It seemed to me that the plan was to rid the world of everything M&D, not because the products or services were bad, but because it belonged to M&D. After the takeover, the atmosphere was one of hostility, sneakiness, and discontent. The company would probably still be around today in some form if the takeover had not happened, and Frank Dodge had remained in charge. I loved working at M&D. It was a great experience. What a shame…

  31. John Bixler on October 2nd, 2008 2:10 pm

    I made a lot of money with the letters MSA. Thank you John Imlay and the others for selling your software to 3 different companies where I was employed. They loved me than. They thought I was an application systems expert. They paid me well for knowing all about MSA. Alas, it is all over now. I now project manage Client Server and Web systems that have no idea of my glorious past. 🙂

  32. Norm Bukoski on February 21st, 2009 6:15 pm

    Recently reconnected with Ron McKenzie. He’s still in ‘lanna. We talk about once a week. It’s great to reminisce about the old days.

  33. James Quine on February 23rd, 2009 11:16 pm

    I worked at MSA in their Santa Monica office from 1984-1987 – was hired right out of USC. It was a great company to work for and I had and amazing boss Debra Gallagher. She was inspiring and motivational. Under her leadership I created many programs for the company, including Seminar Planning and Territory Management Software, for use by the marketing divisions to increase sales. After about two years my boss moved to Atlanta and my new boss was not happy about my having won Employee of the Month too many times. Under his leadership, I started to hate my job and ultimately left the company. Those corporate retreats were a blast. Ahh, the days of wearing 3 piece suits, fun, but I don’t miss it. Now I’m strictly a shorts and t-shirt guy in Maui running a successful publishing company. But I really thank MSA for teaching me about business and how to work with others. Oh, and my brother Sean got a job there shortly after and worked for years after I left, and then as an MSA independent software consultant on his own.

  34. Beth Castleberry on March 9th, 2009 2:39 pm

    If anyone is still following this string of messages regarding MSA (Management Science America), I agree that it was one of the best companies to work for during the 80’s and early 90’s. That’s why numerous people with MSA on their resume went on to start/lead other software companies in Atlanta as well as throughout the world.

    With “People are the Key” as the MSA slogan, John Imlay used to joke that we were to wear those silver, gold, or gold w. diamond Tiffany keys on our pajamas, but these keys were a great symbol and were known throughout the industry — if you forgot to take it off before going out for drinks after work, someone would inevitably recognize that you worked for MSA…..

    But these keys served their intent well: during those days (prior to the D&B regime), we were made to feel each of us was an important cog in the wheel. We were expected to work very hard, traveling to podunk on a moment’s notice, etc., but where else would you find managers pushing the beer cart through the halls on Friday afternoon or gathering everybody together to watch the movie “Planes, Trains, & Automobiles”???

    I went from running the Accounts Payable Dept. at Georgia Tech using the MSA software to being a post-sales consultant on the A/P software in the SE Region at MSA. During my second week on the job, we all went to Callaway Gardens for 3 days for a team-building event. From staid Georgia Tech to MSA — what a cultural change! I eventually came to manage MSA’s internal and external events, including Travel Services, User Conferences, and Incentive Programs. Who knew you could get paid for having so much fun! Our customers recognized the value of this commaraderie, which is why so many of them ended up working for MSA.

    I transferred to D&B Corporate in 1992 but maintained my office in the “Pink Palace” in Atlanta (although they eventually had to replace those pink windows) even after GEAC bought D&B Software. As one of the last ones left in that building before the GEAC offices were moved to Perimeter Center, I virtually turned off the lights — what a sad day.

    As shown in some of these messages, the culture “took” and there are ex-MSA groups all over the world who still get together after 20+ years. (Here in Atlanta, Ferrall Summerell, an executive at MSA for many, many years, hosts quarterly lunches.)

    There is also a Yahoo Group site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exMSA moderated by Tom Bossie where many exMSAers communicate via email with the group, whether it’s to ask how to get in touch with someone from the past, informing the community about a job search or job availability, to learning about the loss of someone. Go to that URL and sign up; Tom will review your request and hopefully you’ll be able to find some of your old friends. It’s a valuable tool to keep up with what’s going on with this great group of people.

  35. Marti Jeffers on March 10th, 2009 12:25 am

    Hi Beth and All,

    I started working at MSA in 1980 and survived the years of mergers and layoffs until 2006 — by then it was Geac. The majority of my time with the company was spent of the development team, and later support team, for the Information Expert product — still being used after aver 25 years.

    I agree with most all of the comments made here by the other former MSAers. MSA was the best company that I worked for in my 35+ years in the software industry. We wore our keys (yes, we got the silver ones on the first day at work) proudly. We recognized each other in airports and places around the world by those keys. I was fortunate enough to be hired when the company was still small enough that John hosted new hires to lunch in his office and gave us our keys personally.

    We worked hard and played hard together. The people I worked with were some of the brightest and best in the industry — as has been shown by what they went on to do.

    I do stay in touch with as many former MSAers as I can. Those who came after we became D&B or Geac never really quite understood our loyalty to MSA and our love for that company. If only such a culture existed today!!

  36. Rick Page on March 10th, 2009 4:57 pm

    Curt, thanks for mention. I took the lovely parting gifts in 1990 and started The Complex Sale, Inc. which has been called a halfway house for abused sales managers. Among our principals are Brad Childress, Joe Terry, Jon Hauck, Rob Goodwin, Dave Stargel, Liz Freeman McCune, and Joe Southworth. In the past Nichols, Aufdemburge, Jerry Ellis, and Kathy Millen also worked here.

    Don House and John Imlay built one of the best salesforces ever and when we merged, we had Noah’s ark (two of each position) so half left and became a great network for TCS, since I had trained them there.
    MSA was the best place that one could work from about 1976 to 1986. After we went public, it was never the same. We were running the company for the stock price.
    But was a smart bunch of fun people. We can only now sneak back into some of the hotels and resorts where we partied. And the older we get, the better we were.
    We had people in software development??

  37. JE on March 10th, 2009 5:28 pm

    I worked at MSA from 1980-1982. I learned a great deal during that time about programming, sales and marketing. I remember the parties and the long hours. I worked converting the IBM code to other hardwares Univac and Burroughs wcome to mind. Loved hearing John Imlay talk. I used him as a yardstick to measure other CEO’s. Few were as good as he was. Later worked for PeopleSoft, little was said about PeopleSoft, did many a conversion from MSA to PeopleSoft in the 1990’s. Last year I did one more and saw the old MSA documentation. I still have my Keys. Best wishes to all.

  38. Lyn Elkins on March 10th, 2009 6:12 pm

    Greetings all former MSAers!

    I have often said that if I could ever go back to graduate school I have the perfect thesis topic, ‘How to take two world class software companies, combine them and run that company into the ground.’ I know that’s far too simple, but remembering some of the decisions that were made – often alienating a customer base that was fantastic and the dedicated employees that supported them – still makes me very sad.

    I did learn so much from the people there. And I miss the picnics, the long days and the focused work.

    The best lessons are that there is life after MSA/M&D/DBS/GEAC and that shared laughter, even when working all hours, makes up for many small irritations along the way.

  39. Larry Reynolds on March 10th, 2009 8:11 pm

    Some of my comments have already been stated by various MSAers, but it’s absolutely true that MSA was the best place to work in the world during the early days. I was there from 1977-1989, and I’ve been searching for another experience like that ever since. We used to jokingly call it “Camelot”, not realizing how close to the truth that was. The culture was inspiring, the atmosphere dynamic, and the people are still the most talented I have ever seen in one company.

    Among the thousands of memories that I have I think the thing that stands out the most is the incredible drive and creativity that people had to win – whatever it takes. There was a swagger, an arogance that all of the best teams exhibit, and MSA had it in spades. Competitors resented it, insulted it, didn’t understand it, but envied it. I’m just glad the memories are still so vivid.

  40. Suzanne Butts Borchert on March 11th, 2009 12:20 am

    Yes – MSA was by far the best! I worked there from 1983 to 1997 – my first real job. The end truely was the GEAC switch! I had no idea other companies were not like this and now appreciate my “up bringing” and attribute much of my current success to working for a company that expected and enabled you to excel and drive and do! Of course the lawn beer parties, Winner Cicles trips, user conferences, etc were way fun!

    The day I started with the company I was handed my silver pin and a peice of paper titled “Meet the Tiger” dated 1973 (yes, 10 years before I stared with the company!) and was told “this is what we are about”. I have this paper still…framed in my office! I read it often and share it with others. Anyone else still have this?

  41. Alan Wilson on March 11th, 2009 8:20 am

    I started with MSA in the mail room of the Southern Region working for Jeff Fisher. I think that was 1979. I met a lot of great people during my time at MSA, Rick Page, Ferrall Summerell, Mike Anthony, Herbie Eason, Al Bennett, Tom McClure, & Ralph Roberts to name a few.
    I will never forget when I was going to transfer to the print shop so I could make more $ and work overtime, and Ferrall took me aside and convinced me to take a lesser paying job, but had a future, working in the data center. That decision was probably the most important career decision I ever made. Had it not be for Ferrall’s influence and Al Bennett taking a chance by hiring me, I have no idea what I would be doing today. Thanks to them, I have had a successful career in IT. I just celebrated my 10 year anniversary with IBM.
    Boy things have changed. No company I have ever worked for was quite like MSA. Work hard play hard. Remember the Kick Off Dinners at the Fox and softball games behind Phipps! John Imaly was quite the leader.

  42. Curt Monash on March 13th, 2009 7:29 pm


    I only recall meeting you once in your MSA days, but you made an impression on me. Being chosen as the internal sales training lead for MSA was a heck of an honor.


  43. André Labelle on March 19th, 2009 4:07 pm

    Greetings all former MSAers! I met so many nice people at MSA. I just wanted to say hello and merci for all the help I received thru the years.

  44. Keith Laws on April 19th, 2009 1:11 pm

    Greetings to all…so many familiar names here! My memories and feelings about the “good old days” of MSA are no different than most. There’s just not enough good I can say about my experiences. I was there from 1981 until 2007, when Infor finally gobbled up the remains and showed me the door – 26 years in all. Most definitely, MSA in the 80’s was a diamond among all employers. Having only a high school education, I was able to learn more there and advance my working experience as probably no college education could have provided. Starting in accounting, as a low-level payroll clerk, I was so very fortunate to have managers who believed in me, and were immensely responsible for so much of my longevity and success. By the end of my tenure – in our internal Human Resources dept. – I was able to attain tremendous respect and trust as our E-series payroll “expert”, though I seriously question such accolades.

    And yes, the MOST long-lasting and appreciative aspects of my MSA days are the very many good friends made, friendships to always cherish and remember. Not the least of which was the personal interest John Imlay was able to convey to everyone – from board leaders to the letter shufflers in the mail room. Truly THE class act of humanity. In a time of personal crisis in my life back then, John was instrumental in raising several thousands of dollars in assistance to my family, through employee (and company matching) contributions. That alone would be enough to inspire loyalty to any company, not to mention the MANY personal touches that were afforded everyone who worked there.

    A once-in-a-lifetime working experience that, unfortunately, doesn’t seem to exist anymore in the business world today. Many memories and so many thanks.

  45. Pat Vaughan on July 24th, 2009 8:07 pm

    Greetings to the MSA/D&B people.
    I worked in the Dallas office from 1987 to 1994, when I left to start my own company. I worked at a Utility Company before and MSA was a huge shock. I remember the first day, I arrived before 8:00 and the front door was locked and the lights were off. I thought the company had gone out of business. Bob Ataras was the first one to arrive and let me in… he said “most people wander in around 8:30 to 9:00.” That said, most people really did work hard. I really enjoyed working there, even though I had been told it would be about 50% travel which quickly turned into 100%. Not long after I started, they sent me to LCRA in Austin and I stayed for several years.
    I enjoyed the reward trips to Hilton Head and Key West… and of course the trips to Atlanta.
    It was a great time, and I still tell many stories!

  46. Dominic Chiarini on October 19th, 2009 3:06 pm

    Hei hei hei who remembers me?
    I worked at MSA from 1977 to 1984 in the Northeast region.
    Absolutely the best place to work.
    Peon from 1977 til 1982 when I became manager of the installation group in the Northeast.
    Those were the days!
    those were indeed the day when they wined and dined you down at Hilton Head (they even paid for my baby sitter!)if you made member of the King’s court!
    Imlay, House, Vohs, John Arnold, Joe Kassar, Bob Abate, Jerry Motte, Tom Bukowski from Canada, ,,, too many to mention and all good guys and gals.

  47. John Phillips on November 5th, 2009 7:55 pm

    I had the pleasure of being with MSA from 1980 to 1988, and just as so many of you have already stated, it was by far the best company I have ever worked for. The slogan ‘People are the key’ had quite an impact on all of us. It certainly made me feel that I was a big part of the success of the company – when it was successful. I agree with Rick Page that when we went public, it was the downfall of a great company. It seemed that we lost the focus at that point. It wasn’t our greed driving us, it was the stockholders greed.
    Spending about 2 years at the Southern Region with Jeff Fisher and Ferrall Summerell was the best. Mostly, I was out of my plush office onsite in client land assisting the clients with the installs. This was a great unforgettable experience. I could always count on an interesting trip. Every trip to the client was different and usually an entertaining excursion, nothing was usual. Texas to Virginia, South America, Central America, and the Caribbean was our region. GL, HR, AP, AR, FA, and the infamous Financial Forecasting and Modeling were the reasons we went on these trips.
    I remember one trip to Mexico City I will never forget. It was about 1982 and the financial transaction for the software had not been made, so I packed up the software and set it aside. Bill Graves was to call me when the software was paid for and off to the airport I would go. I arrived at Mexico city late in the evening, and checked in at the hotel. About 1:30am, my bed started to shake. I thought I hit some of the switches by the bed in my sleep, so I turned on the lights. The bed was still shaking and I peered into the closet where I had left the door open. My clothes were swinging back and forth! I opened the curtains on my 14th floor room, and I saw big pieces of the buildings across the street falling! People were screaming! It was an earthquake! 6.9 Richter. I survived by standing in the doorway, it all subsided completely in about an hour. There was not much damage to my hotel. When I met the client the next morning, of course everything was in disarray. We wondered if we could finish installing 4 products in the allotted time. I was ready to pull the plug for this week, but the client promised that there would be no more earthquakes. Why did I believe him?
    And the parties! I remember on the 2nd floor after 4 o’clock, the education center was having the cocktail hour, and everyone was invited to come by and say hi to the clients who were there for a class. And Interact! The party on steroids with entertainment provided by John Imlay and crew. Unbelievable! Oh, and I’ll never forget the kickoff parties, at the Fox and other great venues. So John Imlay and crew would take this gig on a roadshow around the world! I would like to hear stories about that. But let’s not forget those summer days at Big Canoe, sipping drinks standing in the pool after a hard days brainstorming.
    My days at Corporate were not that much different. Work hard, party hard. Late nights, early days, it was all fun (that sounds somewhat sick). Assigned to the Product Packaging Group gave me exposure to a great bunch of technical folks in all the product groups. My contacts in the regions expanded. The ISP utilities and development utilities became my reason for being there and it was great. I remember partying on the lawn and here comes a jeep with John Imlay dressed as a general AKA Patton style. The videos like the ‘Packaging Zone’ are still in my library!
    I could go on and on about how great it was, but this is getting too long already. I really just wanted to say hi to all my old friends and reminisce a bit.

  48. John Collmer on October 4th, 2010 10:47 am

    I’m working on a conversion project of MSA’s accts Rec system, I’m looking for any source, file layouts, copybooks, program compile listings.

  49. Peggy Taylor on October 27th, 2010 7:54 pm

    My employee record with MSA was the time period 1969 thru 1987. Worked as secretary to Bill Graves, who hired me, to John Arnold who left the company shortly before I did. Wonderful, wonderful years and an excellent place to work. Received all three pins: silver, gold and diamond and went to all the company parties and seminars. Loved all the great people that comprised MSA at that time. Fond memories.

  50. kathleen ann farrell on February 15th, 2011 12:35 am

    Hello all. I was so young and I was administrative support for the sales staff (including Debbie Gallagher). Flip Fullman hired me back in about 83. I was in the Santa Monica office and my goodness, did we all party. We used to go up to Lake Arrowhead once a year for our kick-off party….I wrote a very beautiful song on Lake Gregory on one of those events. I was the office musician and I actually sang for my whole office on that one particular retreat. I remember Ken McCrocklin, Bill Dominguez; Don House; gosh, we even had a salesperson (magician) who used to perform at the Ice Castle…can’t remember his name…Gayle Grace was administrative support,

  51. kathleen ann farrell on February 15th, 2011 12:37 am

    I was trying to find a friend of my back then who worked for GEAC. His name is Paul Oeuvre and I met him when I worked at Informer/GEAC. He was living sometimes in Vancouver, Canada and sometimes in LA. Does anyone know of him? I would really like to find him.

  52. Michael Rakoff on February 24th, 2011 3:47 pm

    Hi all – I stumbled accross this website and it brought a smile to my face; back in time when people were truly key. I made a career as a self-employed MSA application consultant from the late 80’s (Toronto) until the early 2000’s (NC,US). My claim-to-fame was I could do it all: installs, support, modifications. Plus I knew all the apps, security, IE, etc.,…
    What made my job easy was the great MSA support staff (Hotlanta Help Line), plus the great installers I shadowed on those 12 consecutive hour exercises that rivaled any of those reality endurance TV shows.
    Hate to sound old, but software development hasn’t improved in leaps and bounds, despite all the certifications, PMPs etc.,….
    And when it comes to application design, I still use the MSA base model.

  53. Charlie Bourland on November 3rd, 2011 11:45 am

    The company I co-founded was called Computer Systems and Education Corp in Hartford, CT. In the mid-60s we ran a service bureau for small companies and developed most of the financial systems they required to run on a batch processing basis.

    We then started a programming school with campuses in Hartford, Boston and Providence. We had 1,000 fully matriculated students. The service bureau hired the best students and placed the others in insurance companies and others.

    The students working with experienced businessmen and programmers took the original Accounts Receivable package and turned it into a (then) world class product. It was sold to many large companies such as Columbia Records, Security Pacific Bank, etc.

    Finally it was sold to MSA and became their A/R 70s package.

  54. Dennis Bell on November 25th, 2011 11:26 am

    I have always considered my experience at MSA to be the most rewarding position I held in corporate America. I joined the company in 76 and left in 85. I was part of the development and customer support staff on General Ledger, IE and the Database group.

    I was honored to be one of the charter members of the King’s Court The King’s Court was the first recognition award given to employees. To win the award you had to be nominated by customers or achieve an outstanding contribution on a technical project. The name originated from John Imlay’s notion that “the customer is king”. It was eventually evolved into the Olympian award.

    I was at the kick off party where John Imlay brought out the Tiger. As I remember the Tiger was in a uncooperative mood. The trainer was having trouble getting the big cat to do what he wanted. He announced that we should all stay still. The trainer’s crew brought out a bucket of water which seemed to make the cat more comfortable. I was at a table not far from the dance floor and was thinking that the Tiger could cover the distance between him and my table very quickly if he decided he was hungry instead of thirsty. The trainer was able to get the tiger off the stage without incident. I wasn’t aware that a lady had been bitten when they were loading the Tiger into its travel cage.

    The article stated that the MSA applications only ran on IBM hardware. That not true of all the applications. The General Ledger system also ran on Burroghs, Honewell, and DEC. It also could be run on VSAM, IMS, IDMS, or ADR Datacom DBMS. They were very clever in GL using a source code management technique that kept 90% of the COBOL code identical between all those systems.

    Several years after I left MSA I was the manager of the financial systems at Shaw industries in Dalton Georgia. Part of my responsibilities was to replace their General Ledger system which was running on Bull/Honerywell. It was astounding to learn that the system to be replaced was developed by the pre 70s Management Science Atlanta company. Shaw certainly got it monies’ worth out of that G/L system.

  55. David Noble on January 2nd, 2012 12:00 am

    Hi All MSA’ers, I worked in the Sydney office from 1986 to 1993 when the consulting division was disbanded. prior to that I was a client for five years and the President of interact Australasia for 2 years. I am looking for anyone with the implementation methodology, I have some of it but missing bits. any help would be great.

    all the best for 2012


  56. David Noble on January 2nd, 2012 12:03 am

    A great company to work for and a shame it merged with M&D in 93. Dunn and Bradstreet did not know how a software company worked or what they had. It could have been the worlds best to day.

  57. Susan West on March 23rd, 2012 3:01 pm

    I used to work with at MSA. I was trying to find a friend I worked with there, Bob Hunt, when I stumbled across this thread and had to put in my two cents.
    MSA was a great compamy to work for and John Imlay was a great showman! I remember him traveling across country to the different MSA locales with bears, tigers, whatever. We sure did like to party, and he always knew the people who worked for him – who can you say that for now? People really were the key.
    I worked out of the Fort Lee NJ office from 1981-84 when I relocated to a different state. I still have my silver key. You were presented with it the day you started, and it was from Tiffany’s.

  58. Human real-time : DBMS 2 : DataBase Management System Services on April 5th, 2012 10:12 pm

    […] The move from batch to interactive computing even on mainframes, a key theme of 1980s application software industry competition. […]

  59. Tom Smith on April 19th, 2012 9:20 pm

    Just stumbled on this site and its great to think back on the MSA days in Atlanta. MSA was my first IT job back in 1979. I was there for the switch from timeshare out of Canada and centralized terminal rooms to the big hardware on the first floor and terminals on our desks!

    BTW, y’all forgot about All Tax. Now that was some code with all the GO TO DEPENDING ON everywhere!

    I can honestly say that MSA was one of the most fun places I have ever worked, with really good people.

  60. Cindy Metz on April 26th, 2012 5:26 pm

    Hi to my fellow MSAers. I absolutely loved my time working for MSA in the Northeast region out of the Old Town Alexandria, VA office..rolling up to the Paramus, NJ office. Barb & Vinnie…you were the best!

  61. Brenda on May 9th, 2012 11:56 am

    There was a ‘portable’ version of Information Expert developed. Was that ever implemented? Just curious…


  62. Bob Hunt on July 5th, 2012 6:42 pm

    Without a doubt MSA was a brilliant company, rebuilt into an extraordinary business model in the late 70 through late 80’s. I was in the first regional CDP group in 1980, moving from NYC to Atlanta. We were so young and eager to learn. Without a doubt the people are the key was a wonderful and very appropriate way to treat employees and gain their respect and loyalty. Working in the NE Region for John Arnold, and Joe Kassar were very special to me – and would do anything for those gentlemen. After the management changes and going public – I agree the organization lost its focus. I had several software and consulting experiences after that, but none were so personally rewarding than MSA from 80-87. Also made lifelong friends and one of them recently passed on. Ron McKenzie, from the NE Region and moved to Atlanta and Paris, recently succumb to a fatal heart attack – he was a dear friend and a centerpiece of what that company was. Wishing all my ex-MSA friends all the best.

  63. Bob Hunt on July 5th, 2012 6:45 pm

    Susan Woodworth West, you can find me at rch1753@aol.com or facebook. Back in DC after a long and wonderful career in California.

    miss you as well,

  64. Charles F. Sims on August 25th, 2012 1:01 pm

    Does anyone remember the first $ 500,000 ad that MSA ran using the new IBM style logo ? What was the occasion ?

  65. bob hunt on September 15th, 2012 3:04 pm

    Just wanted to leave a brief message that a good friend had just passed on, Bob Klaus from the NJ office.

  66. Rob Goodwin on September 22nd, 2012 7:34 pm

    I am always struck by the universally fond memories everyone has about MSA. The experiences in this blog are the same as those we had from MSA Australia and in the UK too.

    In Australia, we still have the occasional reunion, and it is still well attended after the demise of MSA 22 years ago! Same with the UK group. Speaking about the “merger”, do you all still remember wearing the key inside your lapels when the wearing of them was banned by Atlanta management as “contrary to our new spirit”?

    I think there is a PhD thesis there somewhere on how NOT to manage a merger.

    I hope the spirit of MSA lives on in the way people who worked there manage their own companies/people now.

    The strongest company culture I ever experienced, and I am sure that goes for most others too.
    Some of the international characters for you to remember – Dan Schmidt, Ron McKenzie, Ria Spokes and Alain Livernoche who have sadly passed away, Gary (Marty Feldman) Corcoran, Michael (Father Christmas without the Beard) Hunt, George Koukis, Stuart (The Chairman) Walsh, Christos Astaris. The list goes on…

    What days we had!!

  67. Peyton King on January 3rd, 2013 6:45 pm

    I had the great pleasure of working at MSA in Hamden, CT during the period it was sold. I was placed there temporarily by Keane to support a BASF project. It was only my second assignment in the IT field, and I somehow wound up with a huge window office as a result of layoffs prior my arriving. I was stunned, but brought back to reality when my next assignment had me in a hallway.

    While there, I cut my teeth on COBOL and CICS, and made a life long friend. I left before the smoke cleared. The local executive leader was looking to spin the Hamden group off after the agreement to merge.

    Oddly enough in the small world scheme of things, while I was interviewing, I ran into a fellow from my college dorm at UCONN who had been a Political Science major when I last saw him and had then re-emerged as a highly skilled programmer and software project manager.

  68. ton klaver on March 18th, 2013 8:43 am

    I worked for MSA from 83 – 88 in the brussels/dutch office.
    I am looking for Danny Hael from corporate at that point of time.
    Anyone knows?

  69. anonymous on March 22nd, 2013 4:56 pm

    In response to Ton Klaver, I believe you are speaking of Dennie Haehl, originally from Chicago and relocated to Corporate in the early-mid eighties. Sadly she had retired and passed on. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

  70. Gilles Marcoux on April 10th, 2013 2:45 pm

    Hi to all MSA alumni.
    I had the honor to become one of the first two salespersons in Canada (with Bill Ash) in the mid 70’s. We were 11 or 12 salespeople then, in all of MSA.
    Young and naive (I still am), I accepted an offer from John Imlay and Bill Graves at a breakfast in New York. John asked me if I was scared to accept an offer from a company that had just entered Chapter 11. Not knowing what Chapter 11 was, I gave him a great answer and landed the job!
    I still cherish a picture taken with a young tiger in my arms. One of John`s «motivational» ideas.
    My training, by John Arnold consisted in receiving boxes of brochures and `MSA pens’, along with the following training (verbatim) : `Wine them and dine them’. That was it. I got to go on a couple of sales calls with Bob Abate in New York, and John Fitzgibbon in Boston. Then the fun began.
    MSA has been a great experience and I keep very fond memories of all the people I met then including Bill and Onagh Ash, Bob Crochetiere, Bruce Loeffel, Vanice Cudina and several others.
    Thanks for this thread. It brought a big smile on my face.

  71. Mark Higgins on April 30th, 2013 1:19 pm

    It is fun reading all this. I worked at MSA for 5 years in various functions. My biggest accomplishment was when we ran our own payroll system at a service bureau and they kicked us out. I had about 4 days to get payroll up and running in house so that we could get paid. Everyone got paid on time but we failed to withhold for those buying stock and that was all I heard about.
    My biggest regret was that they didn’t listen to me on one issue. After the IBM PC came out and we had just bought Peachtree Software, I wanted to create a CICS program we could call, over a network, from the PC to access data on the mainframe. We were generating all the code for differnt files so it would have been the same CICS program with a differnt generated file handler for each VSAM file we accessed. But the systems analyst types from Clemson in the computer room could not understand why I wanted to develop on the PC and access the mainframe database. MSA would have been 5 to 8 years ahead of everyone. Maybe it would still be arouind.

    I too thought Imlay was great and I still have my key!
    M A R K

  72. Alain Janssens on June 1st, 2013 11:54 pm

    Hi to Bob Hunt and Ton Klaver.

    Bob, I remember you got mugged in NY and we had these cocktails at Houston’s, Tennessee trash?

    Hi Ton, any contacts with former Brussels office people?

    I worked for MSA Brussels office 80 to 89 and was hired by customer Cargolux Airlines in Luxemburg just in time before the D&B merger.

    It were great times.

    I now live retired in NorthEast Thailand since jan 2002.

    Anyone like to mail me at alainjanssens@zan.be

  73. Lauren Salzman on July 31st, 2013 4:53 pm

    Hi all,
    Worked as a graphic artist for 6 years.started out in the southeast region and then moved to the corporate office to work in the education department, went on to work as a web designer for some other great companies and then started a business with my husband … Hi to all who might remember me!

  74. Bill Cate on December 21st, 2013 5:47 am

    I was with the West Coast sales office from 1978 to 1980. Out offices were in one of the twin towers of beautiful Marina Del Ray, not too far from LA. I was with the Human Resources group, a happy band of nomads who shuffled from city to city presenting all aspects of our products to suspects, prospects and clients. Names: Dan Ozvath, Dan Garcia, Howard Smith (VP of Western Region). Can’t remember having more fun or interesting experiences than my time at MSA. Probably lucky to still be alive!

  75. Martin Brooks on April 30th, 2014 9:26 am

    Just stumbled across this article, brought back many memories of installing and supporting MSA systems at Redifusion and BP here in the UK. Great systems for their time, shame same thought hasn’t gone into some of the modern equivalents.

  76. bill renfroe on June 3rd, 2014 9:38 pm

    I was a member of the MSA Career Development Program class of January 1984. My time at MSA was a blast! I am still doing database managment work base on my experience at MSA. We worked hard and played hard. I even got to do internal travel installing software.

  77. Kelly Manning on June 27th, 2014 5:12 pm

    Trying to support MSA in the late 1980s was a nightmare.

    They insisted on using obsolete pre-XA 24 bit versions of CICS and COBOL.

    I remember one of my last weekly meetings before i found myself a different job out of frustration. A discussion of a processor upgrade came up. The MSA folks made the ridiculous suggestion that we should get some more storage to avoid the chronic Short On Storage situations with the obsolete 24 bit CICS they insisted on using.

    I gave it one last kick at the can, saying that our system programmers who came back from GUIDE, SHARE, and IMS and CICS technical confernces were hearing that IBM was desperately trying to make contact with anyone at MSA who might be able to get their head around 31 bit (XA) CICS and COBOL. IBM found that to be an exercise in futility.

  78. Kelly Manning on June 27th, 2014 5:24 pm

    The buyout by DBS allowed me to quickly resolve a series of show stopping issues with BrightView which had been roadblocked us for more than half a year.

    All the Canadian Staff were locked up in hotel ballrooms for some sort of DBS 101 satellite conference.

    That included the local MSA fellow who showed up every time I called MSA support to ask about progress on my reports of show stopping problems.

    With him out of the picture for the day I was finally able to speak directly over the phone to MSA tech support in the USA.

    They asked if I was using a virtual disk. I told them yes, their local “expert” had insisted in modifying the documented install process to use a virtual disk for some of the BrightView software.

    The USA tech folks explained that was an unsupported way of running BrightView, particularly in Software Distribution Controller mode.

    Bottom line, his involvement had costs us months of wasted time and MSA was unable to recognize that the local resource they assigned to solve our problems was the cause of the problems.

  79. Curt Monash on July 2nd, 2014 1:12 am

    MSA had many virtues, but technological leadership was rarely one of them. 🙂

  80. David Holt on July 6th, 2014 2:27 pm

    Wow. After reading all these great posts, I forgot how I even got to this page as I traveled back in time (1983-1985) when I was a member of Career Development Program Eight (or CDP-8 for short).

    It is hard to believe it was 30 years ago now as the names and faces came back into focus.

    MSA was the only job I interviewed for upon completion of my BBA/MIS at the University of Georgia. I had heard that it was “the only place to work” in the computer industry at the time. (Had I known it was run by a bunch of “Georgia Techies” I might not have even applied… glad I didn’t know that fact at the time!)

    The recruiters told me they were to interview 600 college graduates to select the 16 members of CDP-8. (Prior to this group, I believe the CDP classes were about half that size.) I was honored to be asked for a first and second interview at the “Pink Palace” located at 3445 Peachtree Street.

    My second interview visit consisted of a series of short one-on-one visits with people that lived in corner offices. I knew they were important because they were in corner offices overlooking Lenox Square and Phipps Plaza. When i was asked by one interviewer “where do you want to be in 5 years?”, I told him I wanted to be sitting in his desk in this corner office. He smiled, shook my hand and ushered me to the next interview. (I later learned that he was Pat Tinley.)

    I received my silver key (which I still have today, thank you very much) on my first day as the CDP class was being assembled for the first time in one of the larger training rooms. It was truly an honor to put that pin on the lapel of my blue pin-stripe suit.

    Our CDP class was large because the company had purchased Peachtree Software (the company) from Ben Dyer and we were venturing into ways to make the MSA systems cooperate with these new-fangled microcomputers. MSA planned to send half of us into the Peachtree group and the other half into the MSA side of the business.

    While still in CDP (it was a 6-month program) I was asked to be the official photographer for a small fund raiser meeting at Bill Graves’ house. (I was always taking pictures during our CDP events so Alma Sanders (our CDP ‘sponsor’) recommended me for the task. As I pulled up to the Graves’ home off West Paces Ferry Road, I saw Fran Tarkenton getting out of his car. (He was a pretty rude guy that day!) He was there to speak with some folks about raising money for the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation and I got to take all the pictures! Pretty cool assignment!

    When CDP was finished, I was assigned to the MSA side and my first office included an Epson QX-10 microcomputer sitting next to my IBM 3279 terminal. Our product group was focused on “micro-mainframe integration” and we were tasked with coming up with ways to extend MSA functionality out to the micro world. (Remember when Imlay brought a System 34 out in a casket at the Fox?)

    Soon, I had a “top secret” version of an early IBM PC (64KB or RAM, a 360KB 5-1/4″ floppy and a 10MB hard disk) and was told to never leave my office unlocked! (I took the cover off and saw that the there were lots of wires all over the place – obviously not a production machine yet!)

    We had fun coming up with ways to create decks of “virtual 80 column cards” on the PC then shooting them over to the MSA batch front-end using acoustic couplers, Hayes 1200 baud modems, TAC/IRMA boards and all sorts of “high tech” gadgetry.

    One day, we were summoned to the 5th floor demo room where Dennis Vohs did a short demo of a new “windows” operating system. “This is the future” he said. It was such a dog, we all looked at each other and thought Vohs was crazy. “Nobody will use this stuff because it is too slow and clunky. They will have to come up with some much faster computers to make this dog work right….” The demo was performed on an IPM PC/AT (80286 8mhz processor with 1MB RAM) (Little did we know…)

    I got to travel around North America doing demos of the micro-mainframe stuff visiting the offices in Toronto, Chicago, Dallas, Fort Lee, Los Angeles and who knows where… It was a lot of fun for a young guy right out of college a few years!

    Some of the people I remember most from those days included John McCarthy, Roger Malloch, Frank Hasty, Larry Smart, Pat Tinley, Ty Yoshimura, Dennis Vohs, Don House, Doug McIntyre, John Imlay, Alan Herbin, Ben Dyer, Bob Davis, Joe Southworth, Bill Schull, Sherri Forthman, Becky Sweat, Caroline Phillips, Susan, Keith and Henry (can’t remember their last names right now.) Where are they now???

    Upon leaving MSA, I started a small custom software/consulting business (H2 Solutions) with fellow MSAer, Alan Herbin. We later sold the company to former MSAer, John McCarthy.

    My time at MSA was off the chart. I loved every minute of it! People really were the key to their success at the time!

  81. Curt Monash on July 6th, 2014 7:43 pm

    Hi David,

    Thanks for sharing!

    One oddity in your story — the idea that the IBM PC was so secret. It was launched in 1981 (and I was present).

    As for the Georgia/Georgia Tech bit — Bill Graves told me that when somebody transferred from Georgia Tech to Georgia, both student bodies were upgraded. 😀

  82. Jo Bowman on July 28th, 2014 10:53 am

    I worked with MSA from 1976-1994 started out on the phones filing whatever under Margie Kimbrough. I started working with clients who were coming in for training on the payroll and personal systems and then the user

  83. Jo Bowman on July 28th, 2014 11:03 am

    Sorry, phone rang and I goofed up. Worked in the meeting planning department with Marsha Reynolds, Kerry Coxsworth. I worked with SUPPS, WUPPS,CUPPS and NUPPS

  84. Marvin Morris on August 14th, 2014 12:58 pm

    What wonderful memories. MSA was my PhD in business. I was a salesman 1979-1982 in NJ working for John Arnold. I still remember President Clubs in Hawaii. Renting yachts, helicopters.. It was special. My business successes later in life was directly influenced by my MSA years.

  85. John King on September 3rd, 2014 2:38 pm

    I was a customer for 3 years before joining MSA. Northwest Pipeline in SLC; Frontier Airlines in DEN; Alyeska Pipeline in Anchorage; I worked in the LA office on the Payroll/Personnel system from Aug 77-May 79; John Neilson, Jackie (??), Nancy Harris, Dan Ozvath, Bill Cate, Howard Smith.
    Transferred to ATL to install a new S/370 CPU; loaded VM, DOS/VS, and OS/VS1 and later added DOS/VSE; Phil Ross came in and we added a 3081 and MVS. Phil Craven, Mike Anthony and Tom (??) were also on the systems staff. I left in Feb 81. John Imlay gave me tickets to the Atlanta Classic Golf Tournament – forgot to tell me that Cobb County was dry on Sunday – I couldn’t even buy a beer! Great company; great memories; and I still have my Key

  86. John King on September 5th, 2014 10:04 pm

    Correction – that was a 303x not a 3081 in 1979.
    Also worked with Jean Bratigam – she was married to Al; Tom Williamson was in Systems Support;
    Memory goes to hell as I get older!

  87. sharon dennison on October 8th, 2014 7:50 am

    Marketing Assistant MSA Dallas office 1986-1990. Loved the success of this company in Dallas just out of college. Still keep in touch with a few. Joanne patton wes Calloway Mike o’berry Joe terry….good group of people. Anyone else from that time frame in dallas?

  88. PHILIP OBRIEN on October 12th, 2014 10:51 am


  89. Ann Bartlett (now Beal) on October 31st, 2014 10:55 pm

    I was hired out of EDS in Dallas when I am moved to Santa Monica to get married in 1987. I was hired and worked with Richard McAndrew VP and Ken Barwick, President. I also loved my time there. MSA paid me twice as much as EDS, and I didn’t work overtime. I loved teaching clients the software and especially loved the group dynamics in the Santa Monica office. I loved traveling to training all over the US, and especially loved the parties. The New Years party on the Queen Mary was such a blast. Eventually things began changing after Ken Barwick’s sudden departure. I was heart broken to come in one day and be told he was gone. He just disappeared. Apparently left to head up another company. And then the layoffs started not too long after. It was all so sad. But aside from that, my training and experience at MSA were life changing and set me on a great road of continued success.

  90. Beverly Cusac on March 26th, 2015 1:28 pm

    I am so devastated to learn about John Imlay’s passing yesterday. My memories of him at MSA are embedded in me forever. I began working there in 1979 as Dennis Vohs administrative assistant. I also received the traditional silver, gold and gold w/diamond key which I have always treasured. There are absolutely no words that can describe what a wonderful place and environment MSA was to so many of us. What an opportunity it was! So many wonderful folks, Beth Green(O’neill), John Arnold, Sig Mosley, Van Treadaway, Marguerite Ellington, Frances Moser, Pam Curtis, Mike Heazel,Bob McCormick, “Hollywood Howard”, Pat Blake, Char Baxter and so many more. John knew I was an animal lover and at this particular year we had the Tiger as the Mascot at the Kick-off meeting, they also had a baby bengal tiger. John set it up with the trainer who was staying at the Terrace Garden Inn with these awesome creatures for me to be able to spend time with the cats. I have photos of me bottle feeding the baby bengal and playing with the big guy. I will never forget that magical moment and John will never know that he made possible one of the items on my bucket list. John….rest in peace you gentle soul as you will truly be missed but always and forever remembered!

  91. Laura Kate Baker on March 27th, 2015 4:07 pm

    I am writing this because I am so sad that John Imlay has passed away. I was at MSA from 1986 and survived thru D&B Software and GEAC until I was let go in 2006. I loved MSA and speak of it often. I will always remember Mr. Imlay with fondness. I got employee of the month and got to go to a Falcons game and watch the game from the Imlay suite on the 50 yard line. I sat with him and he shared his binoculars with me. I sent Mr. Imlay a thank you note and he was so appreciative of my note, he gave me an autographed picture of a Falcons player and came down to my office to give it to me. I just buried my Mother last week so this is another sad event for me. I hope there is a Memorial Service for John Imlay so I can pay my respects to him and all my fellow MSAers.

  92. John Imlay, the jolliest huckster | Software Memories on March 30th, 2015 5:39 am

    […] 2006 post on MSA Memories has 90 comments, the vast majority of which are from former MSA employees who loved working […]

  93. Paul Ruston on May 13th, 2015 8:57 am

    I too have memories of both John Imlay and Bill Graves.
    In the late 1970’s I worked in the UK for small software house called QPAC installing, training on and supporting a payroll software package (also called QPAC). This company was bought by MSA around 1979/1980 so I ended up working for MSA UK out of their Maidenhaed office. Apparently MSA wanted a payroll product in the UK and their US payroll system wasn’t a good fit so they decided to buy out the competition !
    I left MSA at the end of 1981 to go and work for a Development Agency in the third world but arranged to rent my house to MSA (it was just round the corner from the MSA Maidenhead office) – I believe MSA US staff visiting the UK often stayed there prior to getting fixed up with a hotel or other accommodation.
    I returned to the UK in 1987 and rejoined MSA and found the same software systems still being sold !
    However, in 1988 MSA decided to withdraw from the UK market for payroll / HR software and attempted a “tie-up” with Peterborough Software, another UK payroll software supplier. I moved to work for Peterborough Software in 1988 and have been there (off and on) ever since.
    I have pleasant memories of MSA – not least, driving Bill Graves’ jaguar from Heathrow to a customer conference in Bath. Having collected some MSA US staff at Heathrow, they were keen to know just how fast the jaguar would go. In those days (1980) the M4 motorway going west from London was still very new (and empty) and we managed to touch 145 mph. No chance of that these days !

  94. Dominic Chiarini on August 17th, 2015 12:49 pm

    Yeah Phil O’Brien!, the sexiest man at MSA Northeast (according to every female in the office, ahem and maybe even some males hehe). Yes I bought the tiles you had bought and never installed, for my kitchen, It was a bargain and lasted a long time. You, bud, you sold me your MSA shares remember?, I did make a few bucks after they went public, the first day of trade up $17.00!, I hope you are in good health. Stay well.

  95. Bob Abate on August 24th, 2015 4:12 pm

    Bob Abate … MSA 1970/’84 … New York District Manager

    Dominic Chiarini was nice enough to send me this website and I was very surprised and saddened to learn of John Imlay’s all-to premature death. I have a number of memorable moments with John at President’s Councils and making closing sales calls over the years.

    I joined MSA in September 1970 – leaving IBM and learning by Thanksgiving that MSA was filing Chapter 10 – Welcome to the world of Entrepreneurial Application Software! Well, it turned out to be one of the best experiences of my professional life.

    The proudest name John could call you was “Tiger.” As I’ve gotten older and, hopefully wiser, I realize the elemental wisdom of that technique. He never really needed to know our real name if, perchance, he briefly drew a blank during a conversation. He simply turned a potentially embarrassing moment into a most welcomed one by being called “Tiger.”

    I will miss John but will always remember him fondly as a Master Salesman – The King of Application Software.

    I also remember Phil O’Brien, especially his valued help with the Letters to Santa one Christmas Eve in 1970. Phil, if you read this or someone who knows his whereabouts does, I’d very much to give an update to that Santa mission. I’m reachable at 914-968-0914 or rpa63@bestweb.net

    By the way Phil, it really wasn’t a hundred years ago although it was a prior century!

    Thank you and God Save the Tigers … Bob Abate

  96. Bob Pasterniak on October 24th, 2015 9:30 am

    I was an IT guy who worked at MSA for 10 years starting in the late 70’s through the mid 80’s. It was the best company I ever worked for and made a lot of good friends.
    Is there any way you can search for by name who also worked at MSA during this time period?
    I retired 4 years ago and currently living in Leland, NC which is near Wilmington NC.

    Sincerely, Bob Pasterniak (“People Are The Key”)
    PS: Sorry to hear about John Imlays passing.

  97. Bob Crochetiere on December 28th, 2015 12:56 pm

    WOW! A Blast from the past. I just received a note from Social Security that I had some money in an MSA Profit Sharing plan….who knew… anyhow I was looking for the MSA Plan Administrator just for kicks when I found this page. I worked out of the Northeast office in the late 60’s early 70’s and then transferred to Atlanta to support Presales when Judy lightfoot moved to Australia and Phil DuPree became Product Manager for SICP! So great to see so many folks from those Chapter 10 days. Good Times!

  98. Shari Thompson on February 17th, 2016 6:51 pm

    Hi and thanks for including MSA on your site. I worked for Enron, and until the mid-90’s, Enron used MSA. Then they switched to SAP R3 in 1995-96.

    I couldn’t recall what MSA stood for, and most people now have never heard of it! So, thatnks again. Very informative post.

    Shari Thompson

  99. Keith Johnson on March 19th, 2016 10:02 pm

    July 7, 1980. That is the day I started at MSA, straight out of UGA, and a member of CDP 2. There were 17 of us in that CDP class and we all had a wonderful time together. Everything I do today has ties back to what I learned at MSA. What a wonderful company and a bunch of wonderful people.

  100. Vandenbossche Marc on April 9th, 2016 12:19 pm

    I was working in paris’s office from 1986 to 1988 as technical support people
    It was great to work for MSA !
    A great office director was Christos Astaris. There was a very good team
    I worked with the people in chArge of IDMS versions
    I don’t remember his name

    Marc.vdb.777 AT gmail.com

  101. Cindy Poole Roberts on July 21st, 2016 1:14 pm

    So sorry to hear of John Imlay’s passing. Glad to have found this blog. It’s fun to see all the posts and great memories everyone has of MSA! I was in the San Francisco office in 1984-1986 selling the micro to mainframe link (!!) to current clients and had the Alaska territory. One of 3 women in sales, and we were all on the West coast. Tried to transfer to Atlanta, but “they had tried women in sales 2 times before and it just didn’t work”!! Regardless, have great memories of sales training in Atlanta with a great group, including Kevin O’Reilly and Alain Livernoche, who has passed away. I remember Don House being great, too. Still have my silver key, which is appropriate since I’m now a Realtor in Raleigh, NC!

  102. Curt Monash on July 22nd, 2016 11:54 am

    I wonder why they thought Roe Henson didn’t work out. And they obviously knew about Mary Kohler at M&D, who was pretty awesome as an individual salesperson.


  103. Bob Pasterniak on July 31st, 2016 9:14 am

    Yes I enjoyed working as a main frame COBOL programmer at MSA in the General Ledger group. Those were the good old days of my 43 year long career in IT.
    I now am retired and live with my wife Mary in Leland NC which is near Wilmington NC.

  104. John Roberts on August 3rd, 2016 4:54 pm

    Great post; thanks for the memories.

    I was a customer.. my first job out of grad-school was at Arthur Andersen, installing MSA Payroll and Personnel modules for Kal Kan (The Mars Bros.’ pet food company) in 1976. If I recall correctly, it was on an IBM/360. What a (positive) experience!.

    Later, in the early 90’s, I installed the DBS G/L system at Intel; am still friends with that DBS Sales rep.

    Life sure was different then. And i really appreciate the history here. The river of time has a lot of streams and eddies that cross again and again.

  105. Software delivery and pricing — the first 55 years | Software Memories on October 12th, 2016 9:07 am

    […] a customer’s check arrived. Less well known is one of MSA in the same bind, which salesman John Arnold got them out of by posing as a bank executive and providing his own financial-stability reference […]

  106. John Winnington on February 5th, 2017 8:19 am

    I worked for MSA in the UK during the eighties, in many ways the happiest work years of my life. It’s quite amazing that this blog has kept going for all these years; it’s clear that folks still keep an eye on activity.
    I was recruited by Martin Judd and Dan Schmidt as a Technical Manager to bring in additional IBM technical knowhow, OS, MVS, CICS, DL/1 etc to their existing small team. I can remember good friends like Jim Wareing, David Marsh, Pete Miles, Peter Barnes on the team, plus a few my advancing years can no longer put names to. Others I can remember were Michael Hunt, Alan Stark, Stuart Walsh, Hugh McCartney, Louis Slaats (Brussels office), Graeme Watson, Mike Duff, Liz Eyres, Jim Jones, not forgetting our excellent admin staff headed up by Eva Newall, esp. Julie Cameron, Caroline Dandridge and Fiona (sorry Fiona, remember you but not your second name).
    We worked hard and played hard, all part of the MSA ethic. I recall some amazing User Conferences (Interact) up at Gleneagles in Scotland, MSA staff and clients coming together and having a damned good time (professionally of course!) I remember many trips to Atlanta, meeting John Imlay and Bill Graves (who insisted on calling me Winningham…..close, but no cigar!). The social side of working for MSA was incredible.
    After MSA I ended up eventually with Oracle for 13 years and am now retired and living comfortably on a lochside in Western Scotland.
    If anyone reads this and remembers me, it would be good to hear from them. Apologies if you didn’t get a mention!…memory not what it was!

  107. R. Dan Bates on March 8th, 2017 2:57 pm

    Enjoying the posts. I was a customer of MSA between 1985 and 2002. Installed and supported MSA’s Payroll and Personnel modules including Information Expert at several locations in Virginia during this time period. Enjoyed all the MSA classes I took in Atlanta as well as all the User Conferences I attended. MSA was a top notch company and all the employees were great to work with. What a great time then to work in IT.

  108. Dick Leurig on March 26th, 2017 8:21 pm

    found this when looking for information on MSA and Imlay as part of writing family history. Enjoyed the posts as everyone played an important role in the history of software companies. My experience was somewhat different as I was in the outsourcing management services business (not software) with SCT, then joined Information Associates before they were bought by MSA, and then DBS, and then back to SCT. So I worked for five different presidents. All of them had special talents, but Imlay was the show stopper. I still remember the race car on stage at the national sales meeting.
    My experiences with Hank Holland was somewhat different than most of the others memories as we got along well and he used me to try and set up services business in europe. Unfortunately, none of the leaders really understood the business in spite of the fact we made a big profit. So the idea of going back to SCT made sense, but I only stayed a short time and then did some work with Ford Europe and continued to work until 81/ Now am 86 and looking back my life spanned quite a bit of the real technology age starting in 1954 with corporations. My fondest memories are of the friends I met in each company and the clients we served. It was good and would probably do the same thing again.

  109. Danie Williams on June 25th, 2017 6:59 pm

    Wow..MSA.I was the West Coast Manufacturing Consultant 1984- 1986. I worked with several super smart sales guys and gals and a couple managers that were something less than totally respected within the company.I had a lot of fun working with Jay Larson, Mike Shaw, Joe Ducy, and Rod Walters. We worked hard to close CokeCola, Amada Tool, Mitsubishi Company and some deals in Hawaii, Hawaii Air, HMSA and PCS. My time at MSA was well spent as I started my own small consulting and programming company and for several years supported the implementation of MSA clients on the West coast.
    I will always remember the good guys/ gals, Debbie Gallagher,Andrew Hu, Rick Cardis,(Ole man Hef.lol)
    I wish I had kept my silver people are the key pin..Almost forgot my friend Andy Laval, an ex Army Ranger Captain..A super good guy.

  110. Robert Roodenburg on August 15th, 2017 5:20 pm

    Looking on Google for Bill Graves + John Imlay + MSA, i found all these great memories.
    I was working in the Brussels and Dutch office from beginning 1983 untill 1989.
    It was far out the best company to work for.I remember my tiger trophys very well.
    Where are my former collegues now?

  111. John Winnington on August 27th, 2017 3:12 am

    Hi Robert, remember Louis Slaats? He and I worked closely together in the eighties; not sure where he ended up though. Always remember his favourite response..’no problem!’. Typical MSA.

  112. John Winnington on August 27th, 2017 4:01 am

    I have a feeling we worked together too. Your name certainly rings a bell!

  113. danie williams on December 16th, 2017 7:06 pm

    No more ex MSA guys / gals to comment?

  114. John Winnington on December 30th, 2017 10:19 am

    It’s just me and you then Danie! Have a great New Year!

  115. danie williams on January 2nd, 2018 8:56 am

    People still complaining about the MSA software not working as promised, well what did you expect for a million dollars? Duhh, it was just software..

  116. danie williams on January 2nd, 2018 8:57 am

    People still complaining about the MSA software not working as promised, well what did you expect for a million dollars? Duhh, it was just code.

  117. Jacqueline Lane Carter on February 5th, 2018 8:38 pm

    Steven and I are living in Palm Coast Florida… Steve Carter and Jackie Carter. We welcome any communication. Steve and I met 1980… He was a programmer and I was a computer operator… most of you should remember us. Hope you all are well. MSA was our beginning…so many sweet memories

  118. Johnny Idol on February 11th, 2018 4:23 pm

    Wow. Such memories. I joined MSA in 1985 in CDP class 13. Fantastic company to begin a career in ATL. I was fresh out of UGA with an MIS degree. Worked hard and partied hard. Bucket Shop.

  119. Tom Phillips on February 19th, 2018 4:16 pm

    Worked at MSA 1978 – 1985 on forecasting and modeling project mostly. Some great times and people. The first couple years I was there they held the kickoff parties at Cherokee Country Club in North Atlanta where we ate filet lobster and escargot. One year they gave out 10 silver dollars and let us “bet” on horse races. I won by betting on a 15 to 1 shot.
    I noticed a comment from Bob Pasterniak- hope you are well Bob we had some fun there yes?

  120. Rachel Panter-Ulrich on February 27th, 2018 4:33 am

    Thank you all for bringing me back to my childhood. My dad worked for MSA (Atlanta) in the 1980’s. I remember that my dad loved a lot of the same things that you all seem to have loved about MSA. I also remember the company picnics, especially the hot air balloons.
    Additionally, I remember dad’s office at Lennox Square. We would meet him there occasionalrly to have lunch, dinner, or a break for pictures with the Lennox Square Mall Santa.

  121. Ann Topping on March 2nd, 2018 5:48 am

    I recently recounted a story to a current employer who asked me to head up a training program on their industry specific software about my days at MSA in 1975-77. I worked in the accounting department and knew nothing about computers. I filled out long sheets of paper with small blocks where each letter of every persons name had to go,took the sheets downstairs to the key punch operators, then picked the cards up later in the day, took them down to the mainframe in the basement where the cards were dropped into a shoot and green bar paper came out the other end. We did not have PC’s on our desks, we didn’t even use the software we developed for others in those days. The People Are The Key phrase always stuck with me. The atmosphere was inspiring. Fran Tarkington was just being “hired” (marketing ploy), Friday afternoon cocktail party’s on the top floor, training sessions for every employee to learn more about computers and systems, company events that blew your mind…I was at the Horse Racing event where the silver dollars were handed out at the door and the thorough bread horse stood at the entrance under a spotlight… 40 years later, I am at the end of my career and I can honestly say that’s where I got my love of technology, I never went on as a “techi” in my jobs but I was always the first with my friends and family to get “into” the computers. I picked up software specific systems very quickly in every job I had, I love software systems, really enjoy working with programers. I have never forgotten how much fun it was to work around those folks. I remember Tom Gasaway, and Sig Mosley (my bosses in the accounting department) I wonder where they are and how they are doing. anntopping2atgmail.com

  122. Bill Allen on April 11th, 2018 9:05 pm

    I worked at MSA corporate office in sales support roles then in
    in-house legal department from 1987 to 1990. Thanks to MSA’s tuition reimbursement program I graduated from GSU College of Law (debt free)… I remember enjoying the work and the people … every year included off- site meetings that were more fun than meetings!
    The company became D&B Software and I was happy to move on. Sorry I did not keep in touch with my co-workers, would be interesting to hear about their past 28 years!

  123. Scott Vandiver on June 21st, 2018 8:10 am

    I came to MSA with Ben Dyer and Buddy Ray when Peachtree software was purchased and moved to the Atlanta headquarters. I loved working with the MSA people. The ones I remember most are Cathy Boatwright, Jo Ellen Evans, Sue Fogg and the Peachtree Crew. It was an exciting period of growth. Events I remember, “Mash” day complete with people dressed as the Mash TV show characters with tents set-up on the corner of Peachtree Street and the unforgettable John Imlay Magician presentation at the Fox Theater.

  124. Claire on July 10th, 2018 8:32 pm

    Does anyone have any commentary about John imlays partner, Gene Kelly. Best man I’ve ever known and a damn hard worker. He worked the finances and John Imlay worked the sales. Let’s not forget about this legend.

  125. Doug Settlemier on October 16th, 2018 7:26 pm

    I remember going to MSA Software Conventions and MSA always had the band 3 Dog Night there. Does anyone remember that?

  126. Stuart M Walsh on November 4th, 2018 12:05 am

    I have many fond memories of MSA I was with the company between 78 and 88 joined as a salesman and ended up as senior vp Northern Europe you could never re create such an environment the people were unique too many to mention sadly some of them no longer with us Imlay Hunt Schmidt after MSA I joined Unisys which was a disaster then set up European operations for Marcam Corp process manufacturing then joined Ross where I worked with Guy Davison still keep in touch with a few of the old hands

  127. Sir Humphrey on November 14th, 2018 11:07 am

    Good afternoon Prime Minister, good to see you’re keeping well!

  128. Charles F. Sims on November 22nd, 2018 11:06 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving to my MSA and American Software friends, and thanks to each of you for all of the wonderful years together. It was truly a Camelot experience in the exciting MSA and ASCC days in those early times. I hope Christmas and the 2019 New Year will be the best ever for each of you.

  129. Stuart Walsh on January 19th, 2019 9:31 pm

    Anyone still alive

  130. John Winnington on January 26th, 2019 4:29 pm

    I saw Sir Humphrey replied to your previous message!! I think this site must be one of the software industry’s best kept secrets. I’m still alive though.

  131. Sig Mosley on March 11th, 2019 10:20 am

    I worked at MSA from 1969 until it was sold to D&B in 1990. I then went on to work for John Imlay until I started my own venture fund in 2013.

    Gene Kelly is still alive and lives in Monticello, Ga.

    Charles Sims- if you read this, I lost your phone number. My number is 404-790-4458

  132. Steve Carter on August 28th, 2019 12:18 pm

    My wife Jacqueline responded to this blog a year or so ago, but I have not seen this site before today. I thought I should add my 2Cents. MSA is the reason I moved from the UK (Slough) to the US, back in 1979 at the tender age of 21. I met my wife at MSA and am still married to her (39 years this October). There are so many people I remember fondly from my 5 years there, several of whom I see have participated in this blog. But there are so many more.
    MY time at MSA was probably the best of my working career. I learned a lot, grew and made many friends. I have never again worked in an atmosphere that so generated comradery, success and company loyalty.

  133. John Zak on September 4th, 2019 10:21 am

    In France MSA has also been very successfull late 80s due du the international image and good management and fun. I was in charge of consulting services working with Christos Astaris and Fred Hessabi. Then I joined KPMG and Deloitte. Now I have my own business but not so much fun as during the MSA time.

  134. Rhonda Payne on September 10th, 2019 1:01 pm

    I worked at MSA mid 80’s to mid 90’s at both corporate and in the SE Regional office. Best job ever! Such fun times!! I see Herbie Eason commented on this thread years ago. He taught me so much at MSA. I’m still at it today working at ADP coding in several different languages. Great to read all these comments… memories!

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  138. Rodney Melby on December 27th, 2019 11:46 am

    Supprised to see that so many exMSAers are still on this memory site.
    I was interviewed in Oslo, Norway by Roger Skidmore in early 1980, got the job and MSA moved me and my family from Oslo to Brussels to cover/support for Scandinavia. Jan Åke Karlsson was sales Scandinavia, Martin Judd was the support mgr in Brussels and I worked there from 1980 to 1984. Other people in the office, Alain Janssen, Roger Blockley, Eric Chaveaux, Alex, Guy Davison. In 1982 I was moved to Atlanta for six months as International Liason Officer with office on the 4th floor together with the international group. I lived with my family in a condo out on Ponce de Leon. When we had a prospect for our software packages I had a member of staff on the 13th floor giving me access to all the managers in the building, dependent on what the prospect wanted. Back in Brussels it was a re-organisation and MSA moved me to the UK office in Maidenhead. Here I worked with Mark Wright, Richard Vidgen Jim Jones, John Wittington. I left in 1985 to become a sales & marketing rep for Cambridge Systems Group, Santa Clara, CA, CSG Ltd in London, selling Job Control (ADC2) and disk space mgmnt (ASM2) systems into Scandianvia, competing with IBM and UCC. ADC2 and ASM2 naming cam from ACF2, securty software.

  139. Rodney Melby on December 27th, 2019 12:16 pm

    my email: rodney.w.melby@gmail.com

  140. Steve Wilson on January 30th, 2020 1:20 pm

    I never worked for MSA but a company that had purchased their GL and AP systems in the mid-eighties. I got to go to many MSA trainings and loved all of them. I remember being so impressed with the headquarters in ATL. Since I did not work for a software company, programmers where I worked were just another expense line item, not treated nearly as good as the MSA employees I got to work with. The 2 instructor names that I remember are Lori Gertz and Shirley (can’t remember last name). I still have the certificates somewhere and will post more names when I find them. As someone looking in from the outside occasionally I could tell this was a special place to work. Best regards to all!!

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  142. Robert Day on March 12th, 2020 11:49 am

    My Father, Dale Day worked at MSA for a long time in the Oak Brook Office. I even worked there too in the mail room for two summers during high school. My Dad reminisced about those “Good old Days” for a long time. He always said that if there was a problem or issue with a client, he could pick up the phone and call anyone in the company and there would be help.
    My Dad passed away from Alzheimer’s in August of 2019. One component of the disease was to “relive” those working days at MSA. I am sure this provided some comfort to his time=challenged mind. The people there were terrific. It seemed that MSA was Camelot, a very rare company and time.
    Rob Day

  143. Jim Leone on March 23rd, 2020 11:32 am

    Stumbled onto this website and saw your post. I was out of Minneapolis and worked with your father 1988-1990. Many fond memories—he was a good man.

  144. Pat Kaiser on March 23rd, 2020 1:19 pm

    I loved working at MSA. There are a lot of companies with slogans. John Imlay actually believed that “People are the Key” and proved it with his actions. I worked out of the Minneapolis office from 1984 to 1989. I just found out about this site today. I worked quite a bit with Dale Day. He for sure was one of my favorites. Sad to hear he has passed.

    Pat Kaiser

  145. Caran L Hardy on March 26th, 2020 11:54 am

    I worked for Howard Smith at MSA L.A. for 5+ years in the 70s and have lost contact. Does anyone know where he got off to or any other of the L.A. crew from that that time?

  146. Ken Guthrie on April 25th, 2020 10:40 pm

    Well, I would have thought I’d have run across this site before now. Worked for MSA from 1979 until 1987 – yes, I would say the glory days and left to become a Senior Manager and Assistant Director with Beth Hunt consulting in the implementation of MSA software.

    My first encounter walking off the street in 1979 was with Pat Blake. I had an ad from the Atlanta newspaper looking for someone with financial background and carrying it around for about two weeks in my billfold and finding myself calling on a prospect in Lenox Towers late on a Friday afternoon remembered this company called MSA (had never heard of them) was across the street so why not walk across and ask for someone named Pat Black which was name in the ad – non knowing if the person was male or female.

    Guard said the person was on the 13th floor and when I got off the elevator told the receptionist I wanted to see if Pat Blake was available. She called on the phone and heard her say, “Someone is here to see you Pat). In a couple of minutes a guy wearing a white shirt,cuffs turned back, tie loosened walked into the lobby and looked around for a few seconds and the girl said, “Oh I’m sorry Pat, I thought you were expecting this person.”

    Pat looked at me and said “What do you need?” Obviuosly I then new that Pat was a male and took out the little ad in my billfold and said, “You need someone with this experience. I have what you might need.” He said something to the effect, “Well, I’m not doing anything so come back to my office.”

    That started a four week interview process, first with Bill Goodhew, then Don House, a few others (about four or five more as I remember) and me wondering what kind of strung out interview process was this with Pat finally explaining that lost of the people I needed to talk with traveled.

    Finally, I got a call from someone by the name of Jeff Fisher (as it turns out was taking over the SE Region from House), went to his office and after asking a few questions such as “What kind of car do you drive?” and then explaining why I had that car, he said he wanted to make me an offer and pushed it across the desk. He wanted me to take over an open sales territory in Florida. I said I really did not want to be in sales (I was currently in a sales job with CNA Insurance. This stopped him in his tracks for a few seconds and asked me to step outside as he picked up the phone. About two minutes later asked me back in and said, OK, will you come to work for us and we’ll figure out what to do with you later. So . . . I took the job. Two weeks later I was sitting in an office With Row Henson (hired just a coupe of weeks earlier) reading software brochures and software manuals.

    A couple of weeks later, I called Tom McNeight (we were both working for CNA when I left) and told him there was a sales position he might want to interview for. His quote to me was basically, “I don’t know a computer from an asshole.” But . . . he eventually did interview, got hired, and temporarily put in the same little office with Row and me.

    A few more days went by, there was a knock on the door, some guy by the name of McCrocklin looked in and said to me, “You Guthrie?” I responded yes and his next words were, “You’re working for me as a Systems Consultant.”

    Best company I’ve ever worked for, by far. Lots of different responsibilities in the SE, later Product Marketing and Support manager for the Micro/Mainframe group with Betty Fezor after she moved over from the FF&M person. Worked with Ron Roberts who was assigned into my group to figure out how to get this mainframe application data into a multitude of PC’s and we created the Micro/Mainframe link (basically screen scraping from the display list register, the little chip that held the date being displayed to the screen. Basically we had screen templates overlaying the areas where the data would be displayed and . . . (TMI_ but lots of fun. The I worked for Larry Smart, doing freelance marketing of AP,Inventory, Purchasing, POC, and Expert Link where I was needed spending 9 months in Canada as acting Systems Consulting Manager and eventually got to within two weeks of being announced for that job on a more permanent basis for two years under the management of Mike Walzak. Jeff Fisher pulled the plug at the last minute – said the cost would be too high and they might rethink how Canada would be supported. By the way, loved working in those offices across the country and seeing clients from JD Irving Oil in New Brunswick across to prospects in Victoria BC., ESSO in Calgary, and the list goes on.

    I eventually went back to the SE Region as a Senior Systems Consultant until I decided to to to PWC because I thought MSA should move into pure consulting which they were not ready to do at that time. MSA was being screwed by PWC mostly by a partner in Tampa by the name of Bob Cawley who was in love with M&D. So going there was a win for MSA and PWC. I had actually been offered a position with Ernst and Young a few days earlier but did not like the cube they offered or person I would be working for. I trained offices in finding MSA implementation services, opened the first MSA support office in South American (Sao Paulo) to support Brazil, Argentina, and Chile, and hired two people away from MSA, one being Becky Bystricki (now Becky Capps).

    Well, I could go on for the next 24 hours describing all of the adventures, events, Tigers Club award, etc. Sadly, I need to get to bed to prepare to finish grading assignments (I now teach full time in the Marketing Department for Georgia State University in, guess what, Business Communications and Strategy – something MSA groomed me for, for most of a decade. I’m so grateful for working for them and meeting so many outstanding people, many who are still in my life.

    I had responsibilty for projects in North and South America and opened the SA support office for PW(C) in Sao Paulo, Brazil in around 1988.

  147. steve capper on May 13th, 2020 8:01 pm

    I also worked for MSA 1980-85 – in Sydney…we just had a 30 person reunion 2 months ago March 6…I now run a PRESALES TRAINING company – and have 3 rental houses in France…. the knowledge gained from my times at MSA re Presales has been invaluable!

  148. Anon on January 28th, 2021 3:06 pm

    I was unfortunately an MSA customer (around 1987), a member of the MSA implementation team and one of many people struggling to use a poorly designed complex system. I’ve never seen an implementation of outcome that was worse – a nightmare for everyone involved. It was clear to all of us we had been sold a system that was impractical to use and extraordinarily expensive, including our well paid consultant implementation leader. MSA wasn’t the nail in our coffin (that was loss leading hardware sales by AT&T and Nortel) but it was a substantial morale destroyer as we struggled to survive our aquisition, one of IBM’s dumbest buys.

  149. Jeanne beyey on April 23rd, 2021 10:25 pm

    Best days of my life. Great memories!

  150. Robert Dan Bates on May 4th, 2021 10:32 pm

    Didn’t work for MSA but installed and supported their HR, Payroll, and Benefits systems including Information Expert from 1985 thru 2002. Took so many classes early on in Atlanta and User Conferences were the best. Loved them all. All very top notch. Great memories in my career in IT.

  151. RICHARD McANDREW on June 8th, 2021 7:42 pm

    I worked at MSA from 1981 until 1993 always in the Western Region. Yes it truly was the best company I ever worked for……hands down. John Imlay made it so… along with people like Bill Graves, Don House, Ken Millen, Ken McCrocklin, and Larry Smart. I could go on.

    I was very new with the company when they sent me to the East Coast to present a software solution for a big deal. I was very green. When the sales Rep picked me up at the airport, he told me that the Chairman John Imlay was going to be there too…this was a big deal! Of course, panic set in and I started to imagine how I would be the guy that lost the deal. It didn’t happen that way. John Imlay went first and completely charmed and entertained the audience. When I got up after Mr. Imlay, it didn’t matter what I said…the audience wasn’t particularly interested in me…….the deal was done. We one!

    It was a Friday and someone told John I was catching a plane soon……he asked me to ride with him in his limo. On the way to the airport he asked me if I knew much about college football….I did. We started handicapping the upcoming college weekend games all the way to the airport and then John upgraded me to first class so we could continue on during the flight. When we landed in Atlanta it was in the middle of one of the worst snowstorms on the east coast ever! John attempted to drive home on the freeway and spun out …..stomped thru the snow to a Hotel 6 and spent the night. I was connecting to another flight to Calgary and after two de-icings we took off…the last plane out of Atlanta for two days. As we flew over the freeway, I could see it was completely stopped with dozens of cars left abandoned in the snow. Forever more, when I would see John he would say…….”do you remember the time we flew into that horrible snowstorm?”……etc. John Imlay was special…..innovative, humorous and most of all a kind gentleman.

  152. Jim Chamberlain on June 12th, 2021 9:31 am

    I am not an MSA veteran but recall that one of my friends from Georgia Tech, maiden name Sharon Bates, worked at MSA in the 1980’s. Do any of you recall Sharon?

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